Public sentiment is largely negative towards the recent US-China negotiations, with a prevalent feeling of skepticism and disillusionment. Many believe the agreements lack substance, suggesting that China has gained long-term advantages and questioning the effectiveness of US leadership in navigating these complexities. Users express frustration over perceived concessions made by the US.

United States

China

America tried to fight China for dominance, but while we were peacocking around trying to intimidate them we shot ourselves in the face

Methystica

Not just that

Look at who's in charge.

You think he's gonna do anything?

Ok_Builder910

The US is not going to save Taiwan. I know that is damn certain. I cannot speak on Australia. Trump's foreign policy is skidding whatever leverage that US soft power once wielded.

fuggitdude22

If chinese leaders are patient they don't even need to anything, the US will destroy themselves from within. Disregarding everything else, the way current US administration is undermining modern health science and shutting down vaccine mandate, they will face a lot of hurt in the not so distant future.

extraterrestrial91

do you think you the author could have used the word 'compete' ?

doublejay1999

Dominance in Asia? I dont think there will be such thing as “dominance” in Asia. It will be a battle ground between Indian, Chinese, American interests where no power will be allowed clear dominance, especially as Indian economy starts to mature. Throw in smaller blocs or alliances like ASEAN, Pakistan-Saudi axis or even resurgent Russia and youre in for a lot of trouble. 

Lets even say that American influence in Asia collapses (very unlikely but whatever). The other players will not let China wreak havoc there. We tend to forget, but nationalism and general distrust of China is noticable in Asia, though it varies by country. 

I truly dont believe any dominance will take place, but I can be wrong.

Maxmilian_

Current administration is focused on internal matters.

FriedRiceistheBest

Dimathiel49

What? This is some grade A copium of an article.

US has not had to fight anyone for dominance because it can crash most economies, including China's today, with a simple pinch at the Straights of Hormuz.

Nobody can contest their grip there, and any attempt to do so severely damages their own economic lifeline for months to come. To say nothing of the *other* fleets the US can send in to either resecure it or keep it ablaze.

Neither Europe nor China are energy independent. They're all dependent on Gulf oil for a substantial portion of their energy (including logistics for vehicles) needs.

Russia is, but as can be seen in the Ukraine War, doesn't have the industry that has difficulties contesting Ukraine, much less the US.

Meanwhile the US would sit secure able to run most of its economy and military as its oil needs are already met domestically or within reach. Canadian oil shale infrastructure largely goes south down the Mississippi.

It is via this economic lever that the US holds vastly more influence over global capital, financial flows, and stronger diplomatic influence than China can muster, even as China rises economically off the US rules based order.

That's not going to change when China is still not close to meeting its first step to contesting US influence. Energy security. By energy security I mean they can largely run their economy and military regardless of any hostile actions against it. China does not reach that bar, let alone the greater ambition of exerting a Chinese order abroad.

The first indicator that China may rise to the occassion would most likely come from the conversion of Russia into a Chinese satellite state. Russia is too weak economically, industrially, militarily to use all its energy resources, better to redirect it somewhere useful like China instead. This naturally hasn't happened yet, but is why it would be a first indicator.

Xezshibole

China can simply watch the US burn down. Art of the war

CountlessTime

You know the Americans didn't become the hegemon worrying about having to fight the native Americans, the Brits, the french, the Mexicans, the Spaniards, the germans, the japanese and the Soviets, etc. Nobody awarded the US world dominance, the Americans simply went out there and took it. Somehow people are shocked that China may be so audacious as to follow the same playbook. 

It wouldn't surprise me if Xi would seek to displace the US from the region. If successful he can declare China's own Monroe doctrine and forbids nuclear proliferation. Any apac country that tries to develop nuclear weapons (Japan, Korea, Australia) will be targeted like Iran.

Tomasulu

SkotchKrispie

Dominance in what, Economic order? Political alliances like the G6 towards the US? At what cost?

Even inviting China to be the dominant player, China will say no to it.  Ask USSR about how it worked out for it. 

China was the leader in the 1950s in the revolutionary movements in Asia at heavy prices.

Pointfun1

China can smoke the US now, but it would be a hell of a fight!

Sharp-Estate5241

A simple similar question: if from Moscow to Berlin to Rome to Paris and in between are same nation, only London is sided with Washington and Madrid and Nordic countries stay neutral, will the United States have the resolve to fight that nation for dominance in Europe.

dufutur

Who else understands that we can choose weather to fight over there, there is no force projection available to the Chinese. Also, we literally would have a coalition of almost all their neighbors.

Finally, we have had a peer fight since nukes.

Gitmfap

do not underestimate American military strength, they're just downplaying due to election.

dheeraj_verma

For purely cultural reasons I doubt china achieve hegemony in Asia beyond their current sphere. The anti colonialist dimension of international affairs suggests that Vietnam, Japan, Thailand etc… would prefer a distant hegemony to a proximal empire.

baordog

The USA will fight China for dominance. Germany, Japan, and the USSR had much closer technology to the USA at the time of the altercation and the USA still came out on top. The tech lead over China that the USA has is dominant. USA is 10-15 years ahead on computer chips. This means that the China can’t possibly have military tech in parity. 

China has far more debt than is publicly known. Google, “china hidden local debt” to see for yourself. 

They are likely exaggerating their economy by 2% to attract FDI. Al authoritarian regimes do this and it would be a complete anomaly if China did not do it. That would put China’s economic size at $15 trillion and USA’s over $29 trillion. China’s economic size is barely over half of America’s. GDP PPP is worthless when comparing countries because I don’t care how much a haircut costs in China when it comes to comparing military and innovation strength. 

China hasn’t invented anything. Hardly a single thing. They have taken copies of what the west and Japan built before them. High speed rail was originated by Japan in the 1960s; they had no blueprint. China used the blueprint. Same story with skyscrapers and America. America built them in the 1880s without a blueprint. 

The Morfius drone uses a lithium ion battery to fly and shoot down incoming missiles with a microwave shield. American super carriers have twin Bechtel nuclear reactors onboard. I don’t think China’s missiles have a chance at landing on our super carriers nor on Guam. 

America is held back substantially by Republican economic policy and has been since the 1980s especially. If not for Trump, Bush Jr, and Reagan, America would have beaten China at EVs and alternative beefy by a long shot.

It's Sachs, a Russian/Chinese propagandist. Much of what he says is misleading or false. In this case, he wraps a misleading claim (China's economy being bigger) with a bunch of facts (basically everything else).

China's economy is only bigger than the US when you compare through PPP. As an economist, he knows that PPP comparisons are valid only when looking at certain aspects (such as living standards, and even then, it's debateable) and are not a good "overall" comparison. That being said, I find the whole "who has the biggest number" bit stupid vOv

turbo-unicorn

I think he is referring to GDP per purchasing parity - That is, a lot of goods and services in China are much cheaper, therefore contributes less to GDP. For example, a 500ml bottle of water may cost ￥1 in China, but $3 in the US. So even China technically has a much higher industrial output, their total GDP is lower.

KerbodynamicX

china numba wan  
everything is made in china

jlodvo

When you look at GDP adjusted to PPP - Purchasing Power Paridy, trade deficits, GDP to national debt ratio, and liabilities of infrastructure and items like funded versus unfunded social programs like government pension plans, I'm sure China comes out ahead and looks like it has a higher adjusted GDP.

However, they have a declining population, a rapidly aging population, an expensive modern infrastructure that will start to cost a fortune to maintain and replace as it ages. 

For instance, Chongqing is an amazing  modern city with probably 100 bridges crossing the river. It will cost hundreds of milliions of dollars to maintain and eventually replace those bridges when the time comes to do so. The national high speed network has almost 1 trillion USD invested in it just to construct it. Maintaining it will start to cost a fortune as it ages. Plus, only high speed trains with passengers and not freight trains can us it. 

While China is ahead in electric vehicle production and implementation, they can barely keep up with the energy demand and their electric grid is not modernized. 

In addition to this, the rural areas outside of the cities lack many modern amentities that people today rely on. 

Let's also factor in the super high rate of youth unemployment for 16-24 year olds which means that they will lack the skills and experience that they should have when they reach mid-career and/or become managers. This will cause a learning curve where a large portion of new people in the workforce will be 10 or more behind where they should be in the professional life. Imagine people getting their first jon at 30 years old, barely remembering anything that they learned in college since they graduated almost a decade before, and now having to be taught everything including how to do everything from zero. This will impact the ability and knowledge level of their workforce creating a huge gap between the few who have the skills to work in highly specialized and modern industries in the STEM fields and a fast majority who can barely do entry level clerical and support service functions. 

So, China is beating everyone hand over fist right now and in the short-term, but without major changes to fix their labor issues, to improve the opportunities for the  entire population, and implementing policies that stop population decline, there will be major issues across all areas of their society 20-30 years.

Different-Audience34

Look what you can accomplish if you just don't give two shits about human rights outside of your own race

VisibleFun4711

Miao_Yin8964

It is actually true by purchasing power parity (PPP) adjusted GDP. The US could have more money than China but ended up getting the same amount of stuff, simply because things are more expensive in the US. People don't understand why China catches up so quickly militarily. They actually spent a lot more than most people realize in terms of purchasing power.

I think the US government needs to realize this and put serious effort into catching up, rather than fooling ourselves we are still world no.1 economy. This is complacency and not helping the US.

DaySecure7642

GDP is an extremely flawed measure of wealth.

"One problem that Kuznets had identified with this misuse of the measure was the inclusion in GDP of activities that do nothing to increase social welfare.
Implicit in GDP is the idea that any activity that turns a smaller amount of money into a bigger amount of money is productive. The greater the difference between the two, or ‘value added’, the more productive the activity is. GDP therefore includes many of what economists call “defensive activities” – activities that are not a source of value in themselves but are, unfortunately, necessary to enable value-creation elsewhere.

Prisons, militaries and hospitals, for instance, produce no value in themselves – at best, they enable the production of value elsewhere in society. Yet they do produce ‘value added’.

As a result, an American can contribute more to his or her country’s GDP by being imprisoned than by getting a job: the average salary of a Walmart inventory associate is about $20,000, much less than the $31,000 it costs to keep someone in prison for a year."

Voltasoyle

Pro russian anti western propagandist that probably has a penchant for children no need to listen to him.

Edit. Downvotes but none are able to refute what I said hahaha idiots.

Evilscotsman30

&gt; how valid is the claim?

About as valid as his toupee.

dracoolya

naskohakera

If I was paid as much as this dork and had fewer moral considerations, not mention questionable ethics at best… I would say China has a stronger economy than the rest of the world combined! The US steals all of the Chinese technology and IP because they’re worried about getting dominated by the East. The East will rise… eventually, the western world is actually just a sham in the name of personal gain. Marx was a profit amongst sheep, but the west is doomed so they just don’t see how doomed they are. 

God this shilling stuff is easy 😂

EitherTangerine

The US is extremely profitable, so it has no choice but to specialize in high-margin, high-tech, capital-intensive manufacturing. Anything else would be a misuse of investor’s money, although exceptions should be made for the sort of manufacturing which is important for national security.

This is true for all advanced economies. Think airplanes, chemicals, electronics, machinery, etc.

The question on economy has been answered a million times. China’s economy only exceeds the US when measured in GDP PPP, which adjusts for price levels. It is a measurement for specific use cases. Redditors never seem to know when those are, and frequently prefer to use PPP in their propaganda because it hugely favors poor economies like China’s.

InsufferableMollusk

[deleted]

The US prints dollars, China is the workshop of the world. Of course China's economy is much larger on any sane measure.

Withnail2019

Demand for major consumer items like cars, refrigerators, HDTVs, drones, etc. are much larger in China.  Sometimes several magnitudes larger.  Their electricity consumption is also two-and a-half times larger and growing exponentially faster.  If someone shows you that an economy produces and consumes twice as many cars as you also produces and uses up twice as much electricity as you, you would be delusional to think you have the bigger economy no?

Chindiggy

uraffuroos

US GDP has three letters fewer than China's GDP.

Much-Ad-5947

Maximuscarnage

China has a larger economy than the US if measured by PPP 


And no the US economy is not twice as large as Chinas, 18 trillion vs 29 trillion GDP per Capita 

In future they gonna dominate organ selling market. Everyone gonna lives till 150yo

derrickrg89

Trump is doing everything in his power to make China the new global hegemony

Appropriate-Tuna

Not valid at all. Most of their military hardware is fake and not tested.

ijustwanttoretire247

Me vs you, China vs USA, bigger vs smaller, richer vs poorer.

You can argue it forever but you still won’t be able to decide what’s best for yourself.

Don’t get too caught up in the opinions and observe what your government is doing to help the people and therefore what you need to do to help yourself.

Once you’ve done that then sit down with some popcorn and join the debate. You’ll be mentally healthier for it

Astonish3d

There are 1 billion chinese.


Ofcourse their economy is bigger.

MissionRaider

Actually in terms of manufacturing capacity, he’s not wrong at all. In a wartime situation, they’ll probably do very well since they can produce war supplies and equipment much faster. Western countries up against them in a conflict will need to weather the early advantage that China will have and hope that the economy can be shifted toward production.

Available_Ad9766

In terms of purchasing power parity the Chinese economy is larger than the USA.

schtickshift

It's amazing what an advantage millions of slaves and a fake currency gives an economy.

Ulrichvon_Jungingen

US debt is their biggest problem one would think.

AmbassadorStock6678

Doesn't matter what they build now it matters what their capacity is if America commits to full solar output it can do it

banbha19981998

If government pays $1000 for each citizen to eat shit is this really going to grow the Economy? Because that's exactly what China does, they print a lot of money, build shit nobody asked for and pretend this is real Economic growth.

Their bullet train lines used to make politicians rich while costing trillions in maintenance, building hole cities in the middle of nowhere after levelling down ancient villages, paying for the construction of shitty EV no chinese person really wants or can afford, etc... China has been running on malinvestments for decades now, they'll run dry of all the fat they stored and won't be able to pay for all the destruction the CCP caused.

SuperPacocaAlado

GDP is such a dick measuring contest if you cut down trees to make pencils you increase GDP without considering that environmental damage you're causing that will decrease quality of life. The fact is, the average Chinese is living better than the average American, GDP means nothing

HeReTiCMoNK

GDP is money exchange. If I sell you an item 100$ and you sell it to someone else 110$ and the 3rd sell it to the next 120$, that's 330$ in added GDP for that one thing worth 100$ which saw no transformation whatsoever between each.

That's what amazon and every single online marketplace do, they buy shit and sell it with multiple middle men. That kind of GDP is a lie.

Since china builds shit themselves the "middle men" actually transform shit before the end user. Most of the thing they build is sold directly to foreign countries so no middle men

ymaldor

our people's life quality definitely worse than America

AEUS_

Gdp is measured in USD mostly so currency conversion comes in. That way people under estimate a countries abilities. Russia for example. People say their economy is so little as Italy. But they don't care because hardware and people inside the country are paid with their own currency. Within the country you can move a lot with pennies, it does not matter

Necessary-Change-414

At PPP, so no. Also he should look up the Le Keqiang Index.

DanIvvy

Reddit is rife with ccp propoganda. Chinese firms own share in reddit.

All chinese firms cooperate w ccp

WealthSoggy1426

the king of bad takes on real economy and politics.  at the same time though, he's not wrong that the US has always made more problems for profit than they solved

jthadcast

So, while this is propaganda, there are genuine valid concerns in terms of mass production of especially electronics. China has more skilled people able to produce tech than any other country (outside of chips), and it's why Apple and Nvidia have to make their products there. There just really aren't options other places without spending possibly billions on training alone, and who knows how much on factories.

This isn't going to end well for the rest of the world, but these companies don't care as long as they get their dollars now, and don't have to invest in production literally anywhere else, and that has actual benefits and isn't borderline slave labor (or literally slave labor sometimes when the North Koreans get shipped in).

Dr__America

The claim is as valid as the RMB he was paid to make the claim

BrassBondsBSG

OP just pretended he didn’t understand what Professor Sachs means. China’s industrial production portion is about 35% globally.

Time_Try8340

Cannot trust any number coming out of China.  Take their population, for example.  A research firm in a neighboring country used table salt consumption as metric; their estimate was 800-900 million, not 1.4 billion.

Unusual-Dance5549

Yeah but their cars suck, at least for your average consumer.

Squanchiiboi

Agh. You also have to look at gdp per capita. Which china is like 56th or something. But then again, China cpi is number one. So ironically that’s why an average Chinese might feel like they’re living a better life. Because goods are comparatively cheaper in ratio to their income. You can “survive” on 200usd a month in pretty much most Chinese cities apart from the top tier ones.

KevKevKvn

And we got the orange man child shit stain administration doing whatever they can to make the whole county shoot itself in its own foot over and over.

Tokoyami8711

GDP does’t mean much, it’s not very rigorous criteria and often over interpreted, overused etc…

AristotleTOPGkarate

kunal1217

&gt;This is a huge deal

No it's not. All this came out on Thursday morning.

NoBailOnReddit

Why does it look like China got out dealt? I mean I am no expert in economic policy but it looks like China gave way more ground

armchairphilosipher

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Further impact on AuAg? Though prices have corrected already to some extent

RockStar_G

Such a nothing burger XD

In 2023 alone china imported 22 million metric tonnes of soya beans from us anyway https://wits.worldbank.org/trade/comtrade/en/country/CHN/year/2023/tradeflow/Imports/partner/ALL/product/120100

Regarding rare earth, so essentially China's "loss" was to get another seller for rare earth minerals which they are already selling. They have complete information regarding the quantities of the materials they mine and this data is not accessible by other countries. If at any point they need to control supply they can just do so and no one can do anything.

What probably hits home with trumps dumbass base is the fentanyl point and I am sure the Chinese expats were laughing their way out of the negotiations when this point even came up

Much_Discussion1490

Some random twitter account announced this, not Trump. FFS.

circuit_brain

Recent meetings between US and Chinese leaders have aimed to ease trade tensions, yet analysts suggest that China has secured long-term advantages from these negotiations.

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